New WOTW film? Maybe, perhaps.... we'll see

[obiwanbeeohbee]

Just for giggles...

I'm not a physicist, so anyone with more knowledge about this stuff, please chime in. I've had a few Sam Adams tonight so you may want to check my math, also.

Research says that humans can stand incredible g-forces and come out no worse for wear if they are only subject to those forces for very short times. (Under a second)

The escape velocity on Mars is about 11,229 miles per hour (3.1 miles per second), or about 44% of Earth's EV. So, in my estimation, the Martian cylinders would have reached escape velocity much faster and after feeling far less acceleration than Verne's astronauts fired from Earth to the moon in the same manner.

Of course the martians would have been built for the smaller gravitational force, so you still have the problem of their bodies being able to stand the stress of being accelerated to EV almost instantaneously. Being giant brains without skeletons, may be an advantage there. No broken bones and the like. Maybe a burst blood vessel here and there. The humanoids with the silicious skeletons they took along for food would have turned to jelly, though.

If, at the time the cylinders were fired, the Earth was on average 35,000,000 million miles away as Wells states, and the cylinders didn't pick up any more speed due to the sun's pull (or from Earth as they got very close) then they would have made the trip in about 130 days. That is also assuming they fired the cylinders straight at the point they expected Earth to be when the cylinders got here.

But, there is another problem with that. 130 days from opposition the Earth would be much farther away than 35,000,000 miles. If the cylinders were actually fired 130 days before opposition, they would have still had to cover more than 35,000,000 miles distance to reach us, but not as much. Cylinders fired at opposition would need to be moving a a much greater velocity than 3.1 miles per second to get to Earth on a ballistic trajectory, as opposed to one based on astrodynamics.

As for the end of the trip, hitting the atmosphere would have applied some braking force, but how much, I don't know. A cylinder would be fairly aerodynamic compared to a sphere or a cube. There would have to be some sort of retro rockets on the cylinders, or plug-nozzle rams that sucked in the air rushing past and redirected it toward the front. I still can't imagine it would have been pleasant hitting the ground hard enough to bury yourself. Even in sand.

You know, after writing this, I just realized I don't really care.

Thank Heaven Wells didn't allow the facts to get in the way of a good story.

[stevesudz]

lol..The last line sums it up there Obi, and I think thats the point. I got the 30 days from one possible timeline. The book mentions the firing of the gun on the 12th (July?)and then the first falling star early in August. The book is vague plus the facts don't line up anyway. The closest that Mars has ever been was in 2003 and it was 56million kilometers. looking back the oppositions of the late 1800s and early 1900s all occured in winter and spring; not summer. 1901 was march. The six years might be a reference to the time between the gun and the star but most forum discussions presume Wells was refering to the time elapsed between the war and the writing. who knows! As Obi says, the trip couldn't have taken too long otherwise the advantage over distance would be lost. Even a month adds a heck of a distance which then racks up additional speed, fuel and food ( martian bipedal cattle? yuk). I think that that last statement is the most important and we can bend the facts for the sake of good story and great visuals provided we dont lose sight of the book and the plot. It is fascinating to me and looking at your drawing Lonesome, make me realise the massive scope and possibilities for a film without ever needing to stray as far as Speilberg did. I think if we followed every idea to the letter, somethings might actually look a bit silly to modern eyes. I mean , take a literal view; a boiler on stilts pegging it across the countryside at 100mph with tumbling legs like a bowled milking stool. The soldiers wouldn't be firing their guns because they'd be doubled up on the floor in hysterics...Ministry of Martian Silly Walks. Do you chaps think the whole film should have a martian/victorian look or a martian alien look? By that I mean a retro look or ultra modern non human?..The tripods I designed were created from a practical and manufacturing point of view as opposed to creating something purely to look alien. I wanted the tripod to WORK. to walk and still keep the elements that Wells describes. The metal muscles and no earthly pivots etc. should I make them MORE alien?

[stevesudz]

On a separate note and to answer Relyt, if you want to discuss the ships idea or send me a list of ships you would like me to look at feel free to email me at [e-mail] and I will happily chat about it. thanks dude! Your expertise is valuable!

[Lonesome Crow]

Good one Obi. ;D

Stevesudz Your design for the fighting machine is one of the best I have seen, it looks alien to me. As for making it look more Victorian? I would say no. This is an advanced race, Millions of years ahead of us. Rivets and steam locomotive leavers would just look silly.
I agree the journey time is not important and that would not even be an issue in a film version, the film-goer doesn't need to know how much time has passed between the sighting of the launch from Mars and the arrival on Earth. Gloss over it as Wells did. ;D

[eliash]

Oct 14, 2011 9:20:16 GMT 1 stevesudz said:

...we can bend the facts for the sake of good story and great visuals provided we dont lose sight of the book and the plot.

I agree, especially with certain problems. I've always been kind of irritated with the fact that impact of the cylinders would have pasted the Martians inside without some kind of solution to the problem, and I did notice that recoil system Stevezie It reminded me of the recoil design I've seen for the Orion nuclear bomb powered put-put rocket. It's easy to imagine the recoil section of the cylinder being buried by the impact.

In my mind I've always seen the Martians as being suspended in some kind of liquid or gel that would help to absorb the shock of the impact, and that the actual impact occurred at terminal velocity of, say... somewhere near 200 mph? Surely that could have been survivable if the Martians were wrapped up in crash webbing or suspended in gel or something, along with that recoil system of yours absorbing a lot of the shock.

I don't think they would have needed retro rockets so that by the time they hit the ground they were simply falling at terminal velocity... just a good heat shield design and some control during entry, like the shuttle has with its RCS thrusters. Maybe some minimal control surfaces to help it glide somewhat. Even something as simple as just a more flattened and aerodynamic front end might help it glide a little, offering some control over the impact. And all this stuff that was never described in the book could be conveniently buried on impact, like the recoil system.

I also imagined the Martians using the Orion put-put launch method to shoot the cylinders into space, and that they fired their cylinders from a miles long gun barrel installed deep inside the planet and protruding up and out of the thin atmosphere, enabling them to accelerate more gradually and with less stress.

Do you chaps think the whole film should have a martian/victorian look or a martian alien look? By that I mean a retro look or ultra modern non human?..The tripods I designed were created from a practical and manufacturing point of view as opposed to creating something purely to look alien. I wanted the tripod to WORK. to walk and still keep the elements that Wells describes. The metal muscles and no earthly pivots etc. should I make them MORE alien?

I think that the tripods are just fine the way they are. That they were created from a practical and manufacturing point of view is, I think, exactly how the Martians would have designed them. No, I don't think you should make them more alien, or ultra modern, or anything. I think that the fact that they are purely functional is what makes them alien.

[mightymandy2001]

I hope theres not gonna be anymore movies apart from the musical we are supposed to have. Like war of the worlds 2, that didn't interest me at all.

[Lonesome Crow]

Oct 15, 2011 13:34:44 GMT 1 mightymandy2001 said:

I hope theres not gonna be anymore movies apart from the musical we are supposed to have. Like war of the worlds 2, that didn't interest me at all.

This is a correct period movie, created by our very own forum member 'Stevesudz' for all those people who want an accurate version of Wells' book.

[Lonesome Crow]

Oct 15, 2011 2:54:11 GMT 1 eliash said:

I don't think they would have needed retro rockets so that by the time they hit the ground they were simply falling at terminal velocity... just a good heat shield design and some control during entry, like the shuttle has with its RCS thrusters. Maybe some minimal control surfaces to help it glide somewhat. Even something as simple as just a more flattened and aerodynamic front end might help it glide a little, offering some control over the impact. And all this stuff that was never described in the book could be conveniently buried on impact, like the recoil system.

Click to enlarge. ;D

[obiwanbeeohbee]

You really need to publish that comic in paper form, Lonesome!

[stevesudz]

I agree with Obi, and I think the copyright issue is minimal. If Pendragon can make a film with no permissions and sell it worldwide..then your work must surely be marketable? Try an American publisher Lonesome? or just wait a couple more years for it to become public domain?


A question..
( I don't seem to be able to find a thread on here about this so forgive me if there is one)

If the martians built a flying machine and did it without any wheels - and it fits the description in the book - wide and big - what is (a) its propulsion and (b) its lift.
If you have no wheels or pivots as such, then an engine as WE know it becomes hugely difficult. The tripods are driven by some kind of electrostatic muscles made of metals(?). ( or so Wells hints)
Does it have wing(s)?
Does it use Lighter than air technology ie gases?
How does it take off?
The more one thinks about the limitations that Wells puts on us, the harder it is to conceive a design in ones head...
Im working on a new design and Im curious to know your most hallowed thoughts!
Respect as always!
Stevesie McSudz

[Lonesome Crow]

Now that's a tricky question!
I've always imagined the flying machine to hover around on a cushion of air, a bit like a hovercraft but with the ability to hover at any hight.
So try to imagine a craft with a vertically mounted jet/jets to create a cushion of air.
trouble with that is Jets use a turbine to draw air into the combustion chamber and as previously mentioned wheels and pivots are out so no turbine, so you've got to think of another way to ram air through the jet.
So how about a bunch of pseudo muscular bellows that draw air in like lungs and squirt it out through the jet?

Something to think about.

Edit:
Quick sketch. Something like this.

[stevesudz]

Theres a gem of an idea there.Definately. Thanks Lonesome. If its ok with you I'm going to experiment with the idea and couple it to another idea. The flying machine is big and graceful and there is no suggestion of it being mechanical as such. To me this suggests other technology at work. The same technology that keeps the tripods stable. I don't know if this is gravitational, magnetic, electrical or a lump of plasticine and an elastic band but after watching the viral video about cold superconductors hovering in magnetic fields this morning, I'm willing to push some unusual ideas together..but I love the idea of it being more "organic" somehow..
By the way..The tripods, when they attack Shepperton, stride across the river. The river to the west and south of Shepperton ( and the doomed church) are around 200 feet across - at least. Now if the tripod stands astride this with one foot on the west bank and two bent legs on the east, and we assume a rough equilateral triangle at full stride, then this puts the Tripods at over 200 feet in height. In a nutshell, my Tripods are too bloody small!! ( sulks).
hrmph..

Ive got an arrangement of your concept Lonesome, that works radially and so would fit inside a wing like a vectored fan.)

[Lonesome Crow]

I've always assumed the FMs to be 100ft tall, I guess I'm getting that from Jeff Wayne's album, but there is also a passage in chapter 14

"A London newspaper article described the tripods as "spider-like machines, nearly a hundred feet high.

Personally I would think 200ft is way too tall.


Edit:

I've just reread the passage at the Shepperton river and I interpret it differently to you.

In another moment it was on the bank, and in a stride wading halfway across.
The knees of its foremost legs bent at the farther bank, and in another moment it had raised itself to its full height again, close to the village of Shepperton.

I read that as taking two strides to cross the river. From the bank one stride takes it half way across, in the next stride it reaches the other bank and the knees of its foremost legs bent as it climbs out of the river.

I can see the way you are interpreting it, but I think it can be read two ways.

[Thunder Child]

We also have the discription from the artilleryman in Chapter 12 What I saw of the destruction of Shepperton:

"Giants in armour, sir. Hundred feet high. Three legs and a body like 'luminium, with a mighty great head in a hood, sir."

[stevesudz]

The Jeff Wayne / Trim fans are ganging up on me....I'm hiding in a cupboard.