I predict a riot!

[rusti]

nervouspete said:

And hey, at least in Equiblirium everyone gets to wear cool trenchcoats.

What would make you break and declare love for Big Brother, matey? I predict a 24 hour long session with Pendragon's War of the Worlds.

Come and get me fasist peeg dog! Theee revolution is waiteeng!

;D

[rusti]

"The EU is not a threat, it's a lame duck not worth fighting against it's in our best interests to join it..."

[nervouspete]

rusti said:

"The EU is not a threat, it's a lame duck not worth fighting against it's in our best interests to join it..."

I fail to see how a photo of Neville Chamberlain unsuccessfully attempting origami on a windy day backs up your statement.

The only threat the EU could pose is economically, either by intent or accident. The notion that they could corrupt our state and turn it into some sort of police state is bizarre. Any attempt would require the British public's co-operation. Besides, it's not as if Blair and Reid aren't already trying to make us carry ID cards and stuff, is it?

Oh no! (etc.)

Seriously though, I just can't see it happening. Germany in the '30's and 40's was a threat because it was a totalitarian state bent on the notion of lebensraum and manifest destiny. (And even then it really craved an alliance with the UK) In this it was backed up with a big army. Now the US and UK have their armies in Germany, and Germany itself is happily content to keep to the cut-throat world of economics. It's almost exactly opposite to the scenario implied in your jpeg importing malarky.

And as for the threat of your Guardian Mexican, all I can say is, both of you better not make Jean Reno angry.



Look at him there. Enjoying his coffee and everything. But what if he were angry? Not even Gary Oldman could stop him.

Fear him, Mr Flibble.

FEAR HIM.

[rusti]

I'll knibble his knee kaps!

[steann]

OH LAWKS IT'S STARTED RUNNNNNNN AWAYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[rusti]

nervouspete said:

rusti said:

"The EU is not a threat, it's a lame duck not worth fighting

against it's in our best interests to join it..."

I fail to see how a photo of Neville Chamberlain unsuccessfully attempting origami on a windy day backs up your statement.

Easy: neville C said that hitler was no threat and ooh he had a bit of paper with ink on it to prove it. in other words its better to be safe (and a little paranoid) than have your back turned and not see the knife.

The only threat the EU could pose is economically, either by intent or accident. The notion that they could corrupt our state and turn it into some sort of police state is bizarre. Any attempt would require the British public's co-operation. Besides, it's not as if Blair and Reid aren't already trying to make us carry ID cards and stuff, is it?

They are so far up the EU arse that im positive they are taking orders and even making a few up for themselves.

Seriously though, I just can't see it happening. Germany in the '30's and 40's was a threat because it was a totalitarian state bent on the notion of lebensraum and manifest destiny. (And even then it really craved an alliance with the UK) In this it was backed up with a big army. Now the US and UK have their armies in Germany, and Germany itself is happily content to keep to the cut-throat world of economics. It's almost exactly opposite to the scenario implied in your jpeg importing malarky.

And thats why the Eu is doint this via the back door, one slow screw turn at a time, no rush. generate enough apathy and ignorance and sneak it in through the back door. Open invasions dont work, so nice and sneaky, no bombs or bullets so no one notices. Its still an invasion to be fought against.

We are fighting a war, a war of words instead of bombs but the end result is the same. A suppressed society at the mercy of an insidious self serving cabal. We have to fight, or everything Britain has stood for, both good and bad will be for nothing. All our history, culture, traditions, swept away. i wont stand for it. i wont be an appeaser, a coward.

Bush said the only good thing he has ever said: you are either with us or against us.

[Ashe Raven]

Difference is, Hitler was invading other countries. Now Britain and the USA are. Chambers saw what was going on and ignored it. Now nothings going on of great threat we see conspiaracy everywhere

[Lensman]

I've got ninety thousand pounds in my pajamas.
I've got forty thousand French francs in my fridge.
I've got lots of lovely lire.
Now the Deutschmark's getting dearer,
And my dollar bills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge.

There is nothing quite as wonderful as money.
There is nothing quite as beautiful as cash.
Some people say it's folly,
But I'd rather have the lolly.
With money you can make a splash.

There is nothing quite as wonderful as money.
(Money, money, money, money.)
There is nothing like a newly minted pound.
(Money, money, money, money.)

Everyone must hanker
For the butchness of a banker.
It's accountancy that makes the world go 'round.
('Round, 'round, 'round.)
You can keep your Marxist ways,
For it's only just a phase,
For it's money, money, money makes the world go 'round.
(Money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, moneeeeey!)
.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant on BBC2.
.

[rusti]

asheraven said:

Difference is, Hitler was invading other countries. Now Britain and the USA are. Chambers saw what was going on and ignored it. Now nothings going on of great threat we see conspiaracy everywhere

The EU is invading other countries, re read my post above. they are using sneaky tactics, not bombs. Same end result.

[rusti]

What is meant by 'federalism'?

As used in the European context, 'federalism' is a political model involving the effective abolition of the independent nation states of Europe in favour of a single central government enjoying legislative and executive powers." [ A dictionary of political thought Roger Scruton, Pan Reference, 1982/] Supporters of federalism maintain that the end result would be the evolution of the current European Union into a 'United States of Europe.' German Chancellor Schràèder believes that "a federal order in Europe seems the best guarantee for solidarity and prosperity. With us in Germany the federal system has proved itself." (In other words, the German political model should be imposed on the rest of Europe.)

5
What's wrong with federalism?

Opponents of the European Union usually divide their arguments into two categories, those relating to loss of sovereignty, and those relating to economics, although there are inevitably overlaps between the two issues. It is also worth testing the validity of some of the arguments put forward in favour of the EU.

5
What does 'loss of sovereignty mean'?

This is the view that by allowing a supranational body to override the powers of the domestic Parliament, legislature and judiciary, Britain has ceased to be an independent nation (or at the very least is in danger of doing so).

5
Isn't 'sovereignty' just an abstract term?

So are concepts like 'freedom' and 'democracy'. Basically, 'sovereignty' means retaining the right to govern ourselves, a right we have largely lost since joining the EU. It is arguable that any binding international treaty limits sovereignty. However, as the former Master of the Rolls Lord Denning pointed out in 1990 (ie even before the Maastricht and subsequent treaties) EU interference in all aspects of British commercial, judicial and cultural life has become "a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls and flowing inland over our fields and houses."

[rusti]

www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/

all you ever needed to know about the EU but were too afraid to ask! ;D

[nervouspete]

rusti said:

nervouspete said:

Easy: neville C said that hitler was no threat and ooh he had a bit of paper with ink on it to prove it. in other words its better to be safe (and a little paranoid) than have your back turned and not see the knife.

They are so far up the EU arse that im positive they are taking orders and even making a few up for themselves.

And thats why the Eu is doint this via the back door, one slow screw turn at a time, no rush. generate enough apathy and ignorance and sneak it in through the back door. Open invasions dont work, so nice and sneaky, no bombs or bullets so no one notices. Its still an invasion to be fought against.

We are fighting a war, a war of words instead of bombs but the end result is the same. A suppressed society at the mercy of an insidious self serving cabal. We have to fight, or everything Britain has stood for, both good and bad will be for nothing. All our history, culture, traditions, swept away. i wont stand for it. i wont be an appeaser, a coward.

Bush said the only good thing he has ever said: you are either with us or against us.

But that statement of Bush's sumarises one of things I despise most of all and brings pain to the world - absolutism! An inability to see anything except in the most basic of black and white dualism. It's what makes religions think that killing is a good idea, and reduces politics to the level of the school yard.

Mark Twain: "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."

So your moral is that we should fear and mistrust everyone in Brussells as they're all attempting to replace British democracy with a totalitarian police state? Does this fear and mistrust extend to the rest of Europe as well, or just the politicians? Is Neil Kinnock included in this conspiracy?

If I were you I'd be far more concerned about the grey paste that is being made of society by the homogenising of global culture. There's far more threat posed by the global corporations and media empires than there is by a bunch of vaguely incompetent Gravy Train-ers in Brussells who could find a winning-strategem to subjugate Britain if it ran a hit Broadway Musical under Neon Lights with a foxy chorus girl line singing, "We're the Winning Strategem of British Subjugation". Both the UKIP and the Daily Express are overwhelmingly wrong.

Indeed the chances of any invasion coming from Brussells is as much as the next edit of Pendragon's abomination inexplicably being an instant sci-fi classic.

It appears, friend Flibble, that soon the only thing left that we will be agreed upon is the excellence of Jaffa Cakes. And a hatred of Chavs. And that other thing, a while back, that I forget about. And Pendragon, of course.


Bonus mini-rant:

And what DOES Britain stand for, anyway? Our society has changed more times than the line up of Motown band. We were successfully invaded 4 times alone between 1066 and the 18th century by Europe. We're already European whether we like it or not, it's just that the successive different national traits (Anglo, Saxon, German, Norman, Danish) have fused to produce something at times charmingly and benovelently and at times crassly and cruelly weird.


(Apologies to Lensman. Nice Python quoting by the way.)



(Written and posted before seeing Mr Flibble's 'Federalism' post and link - reply when I'm less tired and stuff.)

[rusti]

Well i personally think its time we left it there, i'm tired of arguing to a brick wall.

let me refer to the age old phrase: agree to disagree

I think its a good forum and we dont want to devide the forum up with people fighting each other and i fear thats where this thread is heading.

You all know where the rally is and when, be there or not, end of.

[nervouspete]

rusti said:

Well i personally think its time we left it there, i'm tired of arguing to a brick wall.

let me refer to the age old phrase: agree to disagree

I think its a good forum and we dont want to devide the forum up with people fighting each other and i fear thats where this thread is heading.

You all know where the rally is and when, be there or not, end of.

Fair enough, I think we've both countered each other's points. You're right in that these things can get heated on the internet, and what would be a matey debate with good-natured jibing down the pub always seems to end up ugly on forums if allowed to go on long enough. We'll leave it at that.

But one more thing I'd like to say Rusti is that the EU could not be consi... *THUNK!* ("Pete is unavailable for further comment, as he's been bashed on the noggin' by the other members of the forum," - ed.)

[steann]

jaffa cakes did someone mention jaffa cakes DROOL .....................faint..................thud