stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Oct 23, 2012 13:37:49 GMT 1
howdy folks. I wonder if you would help me out here? As some of you know, Ive been working on this subject for quite a while and it is far from a dead topic. In fact, as we have worked through the scenes in preproduction, we have noticed that the designs we have ( and there are now 4) have all got flaws. To give an example; In the crushed house scenes, a FM 'squats' low to the ground. Wells hints at the legs 'folding' or retracting. Our original design from god knows how long ago simply couldn't do this. So, heres my question. Would you try and contribute to a list of essential factors that the FM HAS to comply too? Here are some thoughts; In the Thunderchild battle, the FMs wade out to sea. This means that not only are they waterfproof but also no electrical systems are open to the air but also, the vents which squirt green smoke at the joints must also be considered. either that or they blow bubbles! I know this seems a bit petty but the book is throwing up some quite serious considerations and I suspect we haven't caught all of them. Any thoughts?
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Post by Relyt on Oct 23, 2012 17:24:27 GMT 1
Stay a while and listen, and I shall tell you a story. A story of a long lost civilization. A story of boundless ingenuity. A story of people all over the world coming together to make something the likes of which the world has never seen. This, is the story of THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING MACHINE PROJECT! Just hit the back arrow seven times, the story's right there. See all those posts? Just imagine my voice reading them to you. And imagine my voice as the ideal voice to tell a story.We never got to waterproofing the leg joints, however Lonesome went as far to suggest an elastic sheath over them. However the problem of the folding legs was solved and a handy .gif image was created. Here ya go. (I'm sure Lonesome won't mind.)  |
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Oct 24, 2012 12:39:07 GMT 1
lol.ok. I obviously didn't make myself clear.  I have read the entire thread and more than once. There is some great stuff here and I appreciate that. What I meant was; instead of referring to Wells' direct references to the FM, we can draw additional clues about details from the actions of the machines and the situations they are put in. eg. the fact that a FM can bash its way through a medieval church tower tells us it isnt a flimsy lightweight machine but yet the cannon fire can rip the hood to pieces. Another example would be the fact that the FM can wade out to sea in a sandy estuary. This suggests either some kind of splayable foot or an unusual system to stop the FM sinking up to its nuts ( and bolts) in the channel. In short, I am looking for ideas 'suggested' by the scenes.  |
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Post by Relyt on Oct 24, 2012 17:32:41 GMT 1
Well, I can explain the hoods' 'flimsiness.' The British army was using 12 pounder field guns. Since tanks had yet to be invented, these guns would be firing high-explosive rounds instead of armour-piercing rounds (Solid shot, also known as cannon balls, were obsolete by then and even if a 12 pounder fired one into the hood, it could not create an explosion since they had no explosives inside. That's the difference between shells and shot. Shells blow things to hell, while shot does not ;D.). High-explosive, or HE, rounds create a bigger explosion than armour-piercing, or AP, rounds at the expense of decreased armor penetration. If you want a historical perspective, imagine a Tiger tank in WWII shooting at a Sherman with its (in)famous 88mm gun. When it used AP rounds, the Sherman went up in flames. This you probably already knew. If it used an HE round however, the shell would have exploded harmlessly upon the Sherman's armour, unless it got lucky and hit a weak point, like the tank's rear armour which was very thin.
Going back to Wells' book, because though I love talking about tanks almost as much as warships this isn't the topic at hand, you can infer that one of the six 12 pounder field guns got a lucky shot at a weak point in the machine's hood. The hood may have an open-air window in the front, or perhaps a closed window with a very thin material covering it. The other five field guns simply missed completely, or had their shells explode harmlessly on the armor. (The same sort of thing happened in the First World War by the way, when German infantry had to fight off the British "Landships" with their field guns.)
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Oct 27, 2012 20:33:39 GMT 1
Ok, I remember Wells reference to the 'hood' as being open to the air at the front? The martian sat unprotected by any shield which , personally, I thought could be an authors mechanism to make the martian vulnerable to airborne germs. Either that or was just contemporary with parallels to military design where most warships still had open air command points ie the bridge? This leads to another line of thought;- what impressions do readers get from the section on FM contruction? how do you see these machines made? Framed/ribbed and panelled? welded seamlessly? I know Wells mentions polished aluminium and the novel suggests that the FMs are modular and the cylinders are like hangars, full of parts and the means to construct and fabricate. Does anyone have a working knowledge on the technology of fabrication of aluminium?
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Nov 7, 2012 0:19:57 GMT 1
hello?....anybody?.. its very dark in here..
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Post by Relyt on Nov 7, 2012 2:58:51 GMT 1
I'll always be here until circumstances decide otherwise. But I know nothing of the fabrication of aluminium, except that it's very difficult to weld together. Though in the book you see the Martians manufacturing aluminium from the clay at the impact crater of the fifth cylinder in Chapter 3, The Days of Imprisonment. You also see the Martians removing the metal from the cylinder, so it seems that there is some prefabrication as well as fabrication.
So here's an idea. Perhaps the internal structure of the cylinders is removed to be smelted into different parts for the machines. It sounds more practical than letting those bits be both part of the cylinder and FM's. I just can't see that happening. And why let the material go to waste? It would be like letting a ship rust away while you build a new ship out of brand new steel, instead of scrapping the older ship to use its still-useful components for the new one (I really need to stop thinking about Enterprise 24/7.).
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Post by richardburton on Nov 7, 2012 17:15:14 GMT 1
It has been quiet in here for a few months unfortunately. Come back everyone! Facebook and Twitter aren't the be all and end all!
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Nov 7, 2012 19:14:44 GMT 1
True true Mr Burton and may I say, you are sounding as gravel toned as always ( and quite chipper since Mr Wayne sacked you in favour of a Jedi Knight..). I was beginning to think it was something I said.. Thanks for responding Mr Relyt! I got a similar impression to yourself. Wells seems to suggest that many components for the FMs and utility machines were stored inside the cylinder but yet they still needed to create aluminium to complete them. This is an odd situation to me. The cylinders didn't have the space to store all the parts but DID have equipment to fabricate? Doesn't this suggest that the cylinder contained the dense parts, ie pistons, limbs and the like but they fabricated voluminous parts like body panels? maybe? I got the impression that the cylinder was part life support space, part store area and part factory? Im going to go and read it ..again |
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Post by Relyt on Nov 8, 2012 1:03:23 GMT 1
True true Mr Burton and may I say, you are sounding as gravel toned as always ( and quite chipper since Mr Wayne sacked you in favour of a Jedi Knight..). I was beginning to think it was something I said.. Thanks for responding Mr Relyt! I got a similar impression to yourself. Wells seems to suggest that many components for the FMs and utility machines were stored inside the cylinder but yet they still needed to create aluminium to complete them. This is an odd situation to me. The cylinders didn't have the space to store all the parts but DID have equipment to fabricate? Doesn't this suggest that the cylinder contained the dense parts, ie pistons, limbs and the like but they fabricated voluminous parts like body panels? maybe? I got the impression that the cylinder was part life support space, part store area and part factory? Im going to go and read it ..again The twelfth reading...it beckons me... Yes, I counted. Don't judge me. ;D |
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Post by Lonesome Crow on Dec 11, 2012 1:07:37 GMT 1
As you say, in chapter 3 we see the Martians making bars of aluminium but are they using the metal to construct their machines or are they just prospecting? Maybe the Martians want our planet for it's resources and the smelting of the metal bars is just a test to see if the Earth is worth conquering.
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Post by Relyt on Dec 11, 2012 5:19:22 GMT 1
As you say, in chapter 3 we see the Martians making bars of aluminium but are they using the metal to construct their machines or are they just prospecting? Maybe the Martians want our planet for it's resources and the smelting of the metal bars is just a test to see if the Earth is worth conquering. That'd make for a rather violent test. Would the martians have an exit strategy if it ended up they couldn't colonize? Maybe they would have to build that cannon you drew after all. Oh, and glad to see you back too. Now please don't leave ever again! |
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Jan 7, 2013 16:15:36 GMT 1
Well said Relyt. In fact welcome back anybody who is, actually, back! Well, I have re-read the Book and found ( nay ..collided) with some observations. The first is very relevant to this thread. In Bk2 Ch2 What We Saw from the Ruined House , there exists the following phrase-"amid the smashed and gravel-heaped shrubbery, one of the great fighting-machines, deserted by its occupant, stood stiff and tall against the evening sky". This poses a problem. I thought the FMs 'folded' in order that the Martians could enter or leave. How does a squishy 'bear' with tentacles climb into an upright machine?? Secondly, ( back to the aluminium etc) I looked up the process of removing Aluminium from clay and found this- opensourceecology.org/wiki/Aluminum_Extractor -It would seem that the martians were on the nail. So if the extra machines are made of aluminium (predominantly) then the FMs must be a composite machine with harder metals too otherwise they would bend if they hit something hard like ...say... a church? |
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Post by Relyt on Jan 8, 2013 6:34:54 GMT 1
For some reason I've never puzzled over that unoccupied FM, though I have just now come up with a theory.
It's a scarecrow. If my memory serves me right Wells mentions the martians are vulnerable in their impact craters. They know humans have military capability and probably left one FM standing to make any humans who see it think it actually is occupied. This would convince them to stay away from the pit.
As for the problem with its driver making a trip 100 feet to the ground, I suppose 'he' could have gotten help from another FM by being picked out of 'his' machine by the other's metal tentacles and being lowered to the ground.
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stevesudz
Trainee
The grandson of Col. Strakers hairdresser.
Posts: 97
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Post by stevesudz on Jan 14, 2013 19:50:05 GMT 1
Interesting idea Relyt..Its interesting that we are trying to 'solve' oddities in the book when the likelyhood is that HG didn't really work it all out. I think its great though, as it leaves us pondering many years later. I know this is a thread for the Fighting Machine but heres a question that I think is related; It is generally presumed that there is a visual similarity between the various machines, the FM the handlers and so on. Do you think this is right and most importantly , does this apply to the flying machines?
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I have read the entire thread and more than once. There is some great stuff here and I appreciate that. What I meant was; instead of referring to Wells' direct references to the FM, we can draw additional clues about details from the actions of the machines and the situations they are put in. eg. the fact that a FM can bash its way through a medieval church tower tells us it isnt a flimsy lightweight machine but yet the cannon fire can rip the hood to pieces. Another example would be the fact that the FM can wade out to sea in a sandy estuary. This suggests either some kind of splayable foot or an unusual system to stop the FM sinking up to its nuts ( and bolts) in the channel. In short, I am looking for ideas 'suggested' by the scenes. 
