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Post by poyks on Oct 6, 2007 2:01:44 GMT 1
That's weird! Yes, there was confusion, but the authorities are well trained to be able to record the chronology of the incident surely. It gets even more interesting the further into the incident you go.
Sounds kind of familiar to many things that happen that leave ridiculously big unexplainable holes in the explanations given by various authorities. I try not to be taken in by conspiracy, but it sometimes makes you bloody wonder!
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 2:33:09 GMT 1
I don't know. Seems, perhaps, there was a fair degree of arse covering going on. The response seems to have been botched. There may also be concern about the growing frequency of this kind of thing.
The NATO thing really makes me wonder though. Several people saw these vehicles (I even saw a report that there was a tank spotted there!).
Why did the SWAT team take so long to get through the building? They had been told (by a teacher who had phoned the police and stayed on the line whilst the killers carried out the attack) that Klebold and Harris were in the library, the place where most of the students were killed, but started their sweep at the other end of the building (and it's a big building).
Other weird things. Apparently an older man (not a student) in a trenchcoat, like the killers, was allegedly seen outside the building at the start of the attack. Another man in combat gear was seen by a witness running away from the scene.
Three young men in combats were arrested (and I have seen a pic of their arrest) walking across a field towards the school and said that they had heard about the attack on the radio... but apparently it hadn't been reported yet. They were released without charge.
Some students also reported stepping over bodies in the hallway... but nearly all of the deaths took place in the library.
Also, one of the students who was in the building during the attack was shot dead, with her boyfriend, in a Subway franchise in the town (close to the pizza place the two shooters worked at) a few months later. As far as I know, no one was caught for that and no motive is known.
Could it perhaps be that the plot was bigger than has been stated and more people were involved... but no charges were brought because it would have been embarrassing in some way?
I don't want to belittle the tragedy of this in any way by getting suckered into conspiracy theories... but, if you look into it, more questions than answers are left about this thing.
I agree with you Brendan. This isn't the Stone Age, surely the events could have been worked out properly by now?
The case is still not officially closed, btw. Apparently the investigators are happy to leave it that way.
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Post by steann on Oct 6, 2007 2:51:13 GMT 1
the thing of it is as with incidents like this myths/rumours can come into the fore and depending on where a witness was when the event unfolded and which part of the building a shooting was happening if in a gym hall sounds echo a bit did this make people think they heard more shots than actually happened ?
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 3:01:28 GMT 1
Sure but that doesn't explain shots reported fired nearly an hour after the killers were supposedly dead...
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Post by steann on Oct 6, 2007 3:07:37 GMT 1
Sure but that doesn't explain shots reported fired nearly an hour after the killers were supposedly dead... where they shoots shots or some of the bombs they planted that didn't detonate correctly ? |
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 3:21:42 GMT 1
Shots apparently.
Another weird thing, while we're at it. Apparently explosions were heard elsewhere in the building whilst the two killers were in the library. These could have been bombs that detonated late, perhaps, but some commentators seem to think this supports the 'other gunmen' theory.
There is footage that has been released of the perps in the cafeteria later trying to make the two failed bombs there explode, by shooting them, without much success. Even this footage seems, to some, to show Klebold and another man (not Harris).
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Post by steann on Oct 6, 2007 3:34:31 GMT 1
investigators will never know exactly when these two verbalized to each other their hate towards others and their desire to kill
i believe that there was also evidence that harris and klebold had little concern for the welfare of their friends and the siblings of their friends , many of whom were in the cafeteria and library
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 3:48:11 GMT 1
Well, that's where it's all more incomprehensible.
Harris was, according to 'experts', a psychopath in the truest sense of the word. He had no conscience and no concept of good and evil. He wanted to kill and he was going to do so. He also thought of himself as above everyone else in the world. He was cool and calm through the whole thing.
Klebold was apparently a depressive but not a psychopath. It was he who apparently ranted and raved and was full of rage.
There was a target list made by Harris but not adhered to.
In fact, the killing seems to have been mainly indiscriminate, they just pointed their guns under the tables under which the students were hiding and fired.
Except in one case.
Klebold apparently let one student go because he knew him as 'all right'. In fact, when the student didn't react out of fright, Klebold shouted at him to run.
Some say they were racists, a black kid was murdered and racial comments were apparently made... but Harris ranted against all people on his website.
So, the contradictions continue.
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 3:55:46 GMT 1
Some think that the weirdest thing is that they didn't kill MORE students than they did.
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Post by steann on Oct 6, 2007 4:00:57 GMT 1
they would have if the bombs they had made gone off correctly after those bombs went off they planned to gun down fleeing survivors...[ shudders ]
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Post by Scifishocks on Oct 6, 2007 4:10:52 GMT 1
As I said initially, it seems they wanted to destroy the school totally.
Actually, they had made plans, if they escaped, opportunity permitting, to destroy the rest of the town or even hijack a plane and crash it in New York.
Most of it was probably fantasist stuff but it gives you an idea of the mindset here.
They set at least part of their plans into action. THAT'S the scary thing.
So. Did they have help? Some think that the amount of bombs they had alone points to it.
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Post by steann on Oct 6, 2007 4:19:39 GMT 1
they were planning this for a whole year plenty of time to get what they wanted in more ways than one
perhaps they felt superior to everyone and wanted to " outdo " other school shootings ? if they felt such contempt for others who is to say they may have secretly had contempt for each other but each needed the other to carry out the plan
was it a plan for a mass killing on a grand scale ? and just another school shooting ?
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Post by Scifishocks on Nov 12, 2007 2:04:02 GMT 1
As many will know, there has been another school shooting, last week, in Finland.
This one was fairly widely reported but there were two others AFTER the V-Tech shootings which barely caused a whisper.
Are these things getting so common that they are barely reported? If so.. we could be in trouble.
The latest incident, I think, is being reported because of the media that the shooter placed on Youtube literally hours before he killed 9 people, including himself.
Whilst Youtube removed his content within hours of the incident, you can still see some of the things he posted online.
I have spent a lot of time on Youtube and you can come across some pretty disturbing individuals posting their wares there.
Nazis, hate groups and people who wish to glorify what idiots such as this guy did are many.
Some might say that there is a case, then, to censor these people and watch these postings in order to avoid further situations.
The trouble is... how do you tell the real sickos who could, and would, go into school and shoot it up, from the dumb fanboys who are just trying to impress with what they do on these sites?
In the wake of the Finnish massacre last week, there have been arrests all over Scandinavia as kids are being accused of threatening to do exactly what that guy did, whether jokingly or not.
Apparently, also, there have been links made to several thwarted incidents elsewhere and to the Finnish shooter.
There have been shootings such as this, rarely, for at least 100 years... but something seems to be stepping up as this becomes more and more common.
What is happening to the world?
I don't buy the violence in games, movies and such finger pointing.
In my day, we played War, read War themed comics and so on. But we didn't do anything like this.
So, is it about avaliability of weapons?
If guns were easier to buy in the UK, would we have the same problem?
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Post by steann on Nov 12, 2007 2:47:03 GMT 1
In my day, we played War, read War themed comics and so on. But we didn't do anything like this. So, is it about avaliability of weapons? If guns were easier to buy in the UK, would we have the same problem? we played cowboys and indians  sadly it is all to easy to come across guns illegally not just in the u.k. and any gun in the wrong hand is lethal not to diverse from but if guns can and could be bought legit what measures could be set in place to ensure the gun is in " safe " hands ?who is to say a person may be pushed to a limit and react and use the gun ? or it gets ( unknowingly ) stolen from a registered holder and used in an illegal way ? |
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Post by Scifishocks on Nov 12, 2007 3:08:07 GMT 1
Well this is it.
Probably the only way to stop incidents like this totally is to eliminate civilian gun owbership.
But, this would be against some nations constitutions (and therefore unworkable without major changes) and, it could be argued, that ordinary citizens would not be able to defend themselves from those who get the weapons illegally.
Also, some of these people can always find other weapons with which to create havoc.
Maybe we have to look at how society is changing.
How can people like this be created more and more often?
There are many very difficult questions we should all be asking ourselves about all this.
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